Shipyards

[Periculi]

Wow.. lots of interest in this.

I think the mod community would find endless ways to use changing player ships.

Betelgeuse- I really like your idea and it seems it could be done with current version of Trans. I have been thinking along the same lines for increasing spectrum of ship builds- various levels of mutually exclusive technology paths- If you have this, you can't have that. Or maybe have weapons systems require more parts- and you buy into a system which could have 'filters' for ship types/weapons/armor/shields.

Which, I believe, adds more to it being a fun idea to switch up ships in-game.

[Kamikaze]

Heck, just a way to change the basic capabilities of your ship would be nice.

A set of upgrade packages for your ship, maybe 3-4 different directions to go with.

Wolfen:

1. Play up on strengths: extra weapon slot, maybe a permanent weapon enhancement (to all damage types)
2. Fix weaknesses: Bigger reactor capability, slightly larger hold, more non weapon slots, at some cost to acceleration and top speed.
3. Permanent weapon/shield boost (Firing rate and regen).
4. 30 degree forward swivel on all weapons


I'll do the others tomorrow.

[F50]

Ship prices idea:

Hornet: 2 K
Corsair I: 5 K
Ronin A: 10 K
Viking I: 10 K
Ronin B: 20 K
Wolfen: 20 K
Freighter: 20 K
Corsair II: 20 K
Sapphire: 35 K
Viking II: 40K
Ronin C: 45 K
E100 Missleship: 60 K
Drake: 100 K
Barbary: 130 K
Centurion: 160 K
Tripoli: 250 K
Centurion X: 350 K

All of these are pirate and CW ships. It makes sense to be able to get pirate ships at the BMS for a greater price than listed.

The resale value would be half the purchase price or so. It would probably be a cheaper to get the Centurion X in rins.

Betel's system does sound good. However, I think the number and type of slots should stay the same. For example, weapon slots stay weapon slots, but have to specialize or de-specialize in order to get omni, regular, or launcher weapons. Non-weapon slots have to choose between upgrades and extensions (upgrades: CPU, cargo hold, etc. extensions: Patcher arm, ICX, etc.).

The max reactor size should not be changeable either. A 250 limit on starting ships isn't that bad, you can still get lamplighter and a fair shield generator to face the Iocrym with.

[Sponge]

That price list looks pretty good. The first four seem a bit too cheap, and all playerships should have the same price. If the Sapphire is 15K more, I can start as the Sapphire, and go trade for a Wolfen and come out 15K ahead. There's no reason for it to be worth more than the other two. Other than that, they seem pretty balanced. I could see increasing all of them a bit, as it makes sense to get a trade-in value of your current ship put towards your next one.

[Kamikaze]

Well, that and the Sapphire should be CHEAPER.

As it is right now.

[OddBob]

I think most of those those prices are too cheap. A corsair costs less than a shuriken? From a balance perspective perhaps, but I don't think that changing ships should be taken lightly - consider that insurance is still taking a loss when they replace your ship at 100 000 creds (otherwise they'd be happy to continue taking your money - some it could be your equipment but seeing as if you visit your wreck it's already been picked clean seems like they just grabbed your cargo and gave it back)

You can have 150K or more by St K's pretty easy if you don't spend too much of it (and it's easy enough to get there on a class III/turbolaser combo)

[Kamikaze]

Well, it makes sense for a Corsair to be dirt cheap. It IS, after all, the most poorly built ship out there. Well, short of a Hornet.

[OddBob]

Which means exactly what ingame?

Even if it has some kind of rector or wepaon restriction. I fail to see how it differs from a Sapphire until St K's, so you could sell your sapphire at the beginning of the game and get a corsair, class iii and omni turbo before you left eridani.

[Kamikaze]

Lessee: It's not gonna hold more than a 25mw reactor, it won't be able to hold much more than 5 ton segments of armor, and.. Yeah.

[OddBob]

I don't have the game or XMLs handy so correct me if I'm wrong, but that's enough for an class III and an omni turbo? Armor isn't too important when the class III will take anything that systems before Charon will throw at you (including the arena tripoli if you have an omniturbo - just stay away from the missiles)

So you have traded the beginning Sapphire for a Corsair, netting 12000 (half of 35000 minus 5000), which is more than enough to buy a Class III and omni turbo (both often available in Eridani or shortly thereafter). You have also gained a faster ship.

The reactor restriction is moot until later - you won't need any stronger reactor until St. K's at least, and the armor is only a slight problem: your increased speed and superior shielding will make up for it.

So as far as I can tell, until you get up to strogner reactors the Corsair is a better choice (you also have to take in cargo capacity, but this is unknown - it could be more or less than the Sapphire (since enemies currently don't add or remove items from their holds, I'm not sure whether to trust their cargospace values, as they may have been just made enough to hold their equipment and loot))

Sounds like a deal, I'd say.

[Betelgeuse]

hmm for buying ships I would like a more modular design.

Different ship bodies would have min and max thrust, cargo, maxcargo, max armor, weight, slots, reactor restrictions, equipment restrictions.

Pricelist:

Base ship: 250k credits
Thrust: 250 * X
Max Speed: 1k * X
Mass: abs (X - 150) * 500
Maneuver: (5-X) * 1k
Slots: X * 250k
Max Armor: 10k * X
max Cargo Space: 2k
Cargo Space: 5K
max reactor in MW: (250 - X) * -2k
max weapons: (slots - X) * -15k

When you buy a new ship you trade in your old ship for 90% value if the same base ship and 50% value if a different ship.
Yes I am aware that some ships would have < zero value but that is part of the min max to avoid that. (and to make the different base ships different.)

any comments?

[Periculi]

I think ships should be 10-100x more expensive than listed, except for the starting ships- which should be cheap tugs.

But the whole argument is pointless without a way to change the ships in the first place- all the rest is details.

Bit of an aside- there is nothing stopping us from creating entirely new scenario versions- changing the start ships and even the entire game is possible- so you could have a "Fleet Commander" Scenario where you can choose from several awesome larger CW Fleet ships and play an entirely different set up based on the Transcendence storyline- maybe pick up the story at Point Juno and focus on the early battles of an expanding Ares conflict- the only thing about it is the massive amount of work to create a new game setting.

Transcendence truly can be viewed as a game platform- with all the diversity we could ever want to build into it.

This statement does not reflect a change of my opinion that the ability to switch ships in-game is a great idea.

[Betelgeuse]

we need to have different ways of getting different ships no matter what the price.

Different people play in different ways. Sometimes I feel like killing every Domina station I see or a different game killing all the corp stations or killing military ships and stations on sight. If you can not reasonably go through the game without changing ships there needs to be many ways of changing ships.

hmm couple ideas.

corp station changes ships around st k no missions required but must have traded so much with their stations (buying and selling, make sure you can't just sell it back to the station you bought from)

black market shipyard changing your ship at discount if you are an active slave trader

Commonweath changes ships early but only low value ships

Teratons change ships at the cost of an eye and rins (meaning only once)

Ringers bring them something they have never seen before (random rare item) then change ships for rins

[Sponge]

So you have traded the beginning Sapphire for a Corsair, netting 12000 (half of 35000 minus 5000), which is more than enough to buy a Class III and omni turbo (both often available in Eridani or shortly thereafter). You have also gained a faster ship.

The reactor restriction is moot until later - you won't need any stronger reactor until St. K's at least, and the armor is only a slight problem: your increased speed and superior shielding will make up for it.

Perhaps, but you're setting yourself up for failure in the long run. Your hold is smaller, and so looting is even harder. I would assume a Corsair has no more cargo capacity than a Wolfen- hopefully less. This makes making cash tedious and difficult. When you do need something better than your Class III and a laser weapon, you've got a crap ship with virtually no trade-in value, and less cash than you could have had with your starting ship.

[OddBob]

Your hold is smaller, and so looting is even harder.

Maybe it's smaller, I assume the 5 tons in the XML is not 'canon' for reasons stated previously. Nothing an expansion won't fix, you've got the cash for it from the Sapphire (and it's not necessarily an extra expense because you'd possibly get one if you kept the sapphire)

When you do need something better than your Class III and a laser weapon, you've got a crap ship with virtually no trade-in value, and less cash than you could have had with your starting ship.

You have the same amount of cash (minus 2500, the trade in value of the corsair). You just got it earlier. Remember you already traded it in at the beginning (getting your trade in value then). Yes, you spent it on gear, and not towards a ship, but it evens out because if you had NOT traded it, you would have spent the same amount on gear anyway (if you find it and equip it, you forfeit the potential cash from selling it).

In other words, you get 12000 creds from trading in your ship, period, whenever you do it. You have to buy your kit regardless of whether you traded or not at the beginning. If you buy all your gear at the beginning with the trade in money, you get to keep the loot money you would have bought it with later, which is roughly equal in value (again, minus the 2500 and the "found item" cost)

So you come out slightly behind with the 2500 and assuming some found gear is equipped (due to the markup) but it's not the same as the whole 12K.