What sort of amoral behavior does this game encourage?

[PM]

Sure, donating slaves to Domina or feeding them to a fabricator is not slave trading technically, but you are profitting from their bondage, and the profit is greater than the credits you get from selling them.

Yes, the Commonwealth rewards tend to be lame. Longzhu sphere is good. Ringer valuable is not ideal, but somewhat useful. Scrolls? What are they good for? Also, there should be an opportunity for a reward beyond 24 freed slaves. Rather, maybe have the chance of reward be random instead of at two defined quotas?

[Aury]

Scrolls give you credits, but its hardly enough if even enough to cover your fuel & repair costs.

[Atarlost]

Or your reward for freeing the slaves could be to be less of a monster than the guy who uses them as fuel and commits genocide against the single least hostile faction in the entire game for cash.

Frankly that some people are ticking off every atrocity the game doesn't actively punish them for doesn't say anything good about them.

You don't get any credit for doing the right thing when it's also the "optimum" decision.

[Aury]

Actually I just want more longzhu's ... especially after my citadel-less run lastime, and I only got 5 longzhu's, 2 diamond rings, and 1 ion capacitor D:

But I mean, I thought giving them to domina freed them. I mean, at least the sisters will take care of them, and stuff, right? And if they don't like it, they can jump on a supply ship and get a ride out of there.

[PM]

At least in real life, there are consequences for criminal behavior, either in this life or the next. Religious people will not commit such acts because it offends their God.

In the game, many such despicable acts have neither consequences nor a God to answer to. Being less than a complete monster is not a reward if the game does not enforce it. It is merely fueling the player's ego, which is irrelevant as far as the computer (which runs the game) is concerned.

(To Wolfy) I thought sending slaves to Domina freed them, until George wrote that it did not. Took me by surprise.

[Aury]

Some more ideas:
Maybe salvagers should restrict themselves to wrecks, and thus not be stealing from the player's crates or mules; perhapse if they would also occasionally go near a friendly station, activate the wait command, and allow people to dock with them & buy their goods. Maybe if they could repair what they looked back into working condition? Because as it is now, they are stealing, and thus it's justified to blow them up; honestly, I can't see how they are still marked as neutrals. Opportunistic piracy is still piracy, even if nobody gets killed. And just blatant piracy when it comes to stealing from mules.

Also, Teratons should not be such picky jerks. IMO, they deserved it for not buying my lazarus (and all my other high-end shields & armors).

Ferians are harmless, and I don't mine... so I don't really bother them. (Also, that the ringers enslave them sucks too, so yeah. But I don't blow up ringers because they have big guns & are the only late-game group who can repair light-iocrym)

Neutral smugglers are cross-fire magnets, and once you touch them, they start attacking, and then you have to kill them.

As to enemy factions:
Early game:
The Anarchists, pirates, himal, heliotropes are all jerks, the centauri... *facepalm*. Let's just call it mercy killing and leave it at that.
Outlaws.. mostly a case of self-defense, since they have crummy loot.

Mid/late game:
Everyone but the Ranx & Hauri & pteravores are legitimate jerks. I sympathise with the former two, but ... the Ranx send people after me, so I do what I must, because I can. Pteravores are some sort of animal-fungus feeding on pteracnium, and with them its kill or be killed.

[Amilir]

What amoral stuff does this game encourage? Anything you can get away with of course. Given that you as a pilgrim are leaving human space quickly, your legacy is irrelevant. Because you also pass through most faction's space quickly, and factions don't care about each other, there's no one to punish you for monstrous acts. As such, it's only up to your morals and greed what you burn and pillage. This isn't helped by the general lack of factions even caring about other sections of themselves.

[george moromisato]

One of the reasons I added game stats was to allow players to make their own decisions about how to value their actions in the game.

[This is also why "Achievements & Regrets" are one category--I don't want to have to specify which is which.]

I hope that a "metagame" will develop in which people will compete for a high score under various constraints (e.g., no killing of friendlies, etc.)

And if there are additional stats that would help this, please feel free to request them.

Conversely, if there are other kinds of behaviors (moral or amoral) that should be possible in the game, suggest them too.

[Aury]

George: I suggested a noFriendlies killed conduct, but I don't know if that ever made it in (otherwise you have to scroll all the way down)

[Racoon.sf]

Suggestions:

- no trading with illegal items
- number of slaves freed

[Song]

Why not have a conduct for if you never turn down a mission that involves helping people (like miners requiring rescue, or CW agriculture station missions, or Point Juno 1)

[Wurmish]

I think that as long as the player is able to maintain a line between what is reality and what is fantasy, this game doesn't truly encourage amorality. If the player cannot maintain a line between a computer screen that shows space, space ships, asteroids, stars, aliens, weapons, armor, things that just don't exist in real life, etc. and the actual world outside the computer screen with fresh air, flowers, more computer screens, other people, buildings, stars in the night sky, etc., then said player is probably lost enough in their own realities it doesn't necessarily matter whether or not they are encouraged by potential amoral actions in Transcendence.

TL:DR - it's a game, as long as you look at it as a game, it encourages nothing.

Potential argument - the game influences you even if you can look at it as just a game > it sounds like a choice to let oneself think "If a game lets me do it, then I can do it in real life."

[/2 cents]

[Racoon.sf]

As far as I understood it, this topic is about how the game encourages immoral behavior ingame.

I'm quite sure no one here mistakes the game for reality, at least I hope so.

[PM]

When I started the topic, I thought if the player wants to play a more heroic character, he may have a much harder game. For example, if you want to trade ores to Ringers, you will very likely need to attack Ferians, either to steal their ore or simply to have a clear shot at the rocks you want to mine. Since changing gameplay to discourage some of the atrocities the player can commit may be a very difficult task for George (it will skew balance at least), having more official conducts like in Nethack or DoomRL may be the answer. For some players, pride can be more important than winning, especially when comparing stats with other players. The developer can exploit this!

Example: "Ah, you won a game of NetHack! Too bad you exploited polymorph shenanigans, used a bunch of wishes for artifacts, and you even died a few times but were saved by your amulets of life saving!" Or, "Wow! This guy did not eat meat, was an atheist, did not use polymorph or wishes, and never died once!"

Transcendence needs more official conducts. Examples:
* No Domina powers. Without them, the game is much harder. (I take them for granted.)
* No Black Market. No buying or selling allowed at the Black Market.

Wolfy's suggestion for No Friendlies Killed is a good one. Did that Salvager steal your loot? Tough! You get to lump it if you want to uphold this conduct.

[Song]

There's also the "No-Buy" or "Scavenger" conduct: You do not install any weapon, armor or shield that you have bought from a shop/station.

Devices (EG: Bushido enhancer, Longreach), Drives and reactors are fine, however.